jpbikerfreak's Blog

You are right JB, many of the founding fathers did not have christian roots..some were agnostic I believe and I think Franklin was athiest not real sure...but they all believed in the idea of people having the freedom to pursue their own beliefs and that govt should never impose a "belief system" on it's people.

Jefferson's perception of faith or christianity, cannot be embraced as the sole fabric in which the spirit of the document was created to establish.There was diversity in the ideals and beliefs that were woven into the foundation.

The freedom of religion and the freedom from religion-

When I say God bless America...I intend my nation no harm...When I say that I look upon the ten commandments as perfectly acceptable to display in a public area, is it causing harm? "thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal.." they are not hurting my nation or it's people...no more than my children bowing their heads to pray for a blessing.

My question would be, when people express their own perception and operate within that freedom to engraft their faith into their loyalty to their nation...why would it upset others so?

This is a good post JB...I am glad you wrote it and I hope people don't bash you.=)

I do agree we are not nor should be considered a nation of one faith. However many of the founding fathers had strong religious beliefs. It took much time for Madison to convince many that religion should be left out of the Constition and Bill of Rights. Many did convert to diesis after the fight. Even if the founding fathers were or were not of faith, they were smart enough to leave it completely out of law. Many aren't samrt enough to see that.

11 of the thirteen states wanted to reserve the right to persecute religions other than the majority. Religions in America aside from the protestants have been persecuted from day one in America. In a sense, it is no different from today. I am christian, but it is not my business to push it on others and it irritates me when others say there is one way to God. For them there is and for another there is. Make sense?

I think it is all how we interpet things and alot gets lost in history. Perhaps Madison was more of a moderator than led the whole fight.

Are you speaking of the American Revolution? Many at that time who were not protestant were churched other faiths were not because they were persecuted. We many differ slightly on this subject, but I hold your opinion in high reguard! Please dont take offense.

Yes a faith does change how one behaves, to me I don't care so long as it is not forced on me. Speaking about it is very different, but to say it is the only way is upsetting. I think we both agree on that. Our faiths very but to me as long as we can appreciate eachothers views it doesnt matter. To me no one religion is the right religion for everyone and even if we dont follow that religion we can take things from it that help us be better.

You all make great and very informative points. as a person on the outside of your blog looking in JB, a lot of the religion in this country has become distorted in the efforts to use religion to get what a group wants the way other things are used so fluently to gain the support and simpathy of the public. Most of it has no meaning to alot of those people except the fear factor behind it.

Quite frankly that is your belief that christ saved our eternal life. you attack others views as though you know what is best for everyone. you dont and dont have the right to do so. you are not god, so quit acting like it.

no this country was not founded on christian beliefs. the men who founded our country were smart enough to leave that out. they fought for equality of ALL religions and if christians would quit shoving thier beliefs down our throats, perhaps christianity wouldn't bw slandered. hiding behind your religion to justify your actions is cowardly and delusional.

You say evolution is a "theary" (theory), but you think religion is a fact? Religion is even more baseless than evolution. It is, by its very nature, immune to reason and logic. If it could be sustantiated by evidence, it would be science, not religion.

MissNancy, No I do NOT agree that we were founded on Christian Principles. A few quotes from the chief architects of our country:

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved - the cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced"

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of NOTINGS" (both Thomas Jefferson)

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches" -Ben Franklin

"As I understand it, the Christian religion, it was, and is a revalation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed" -John Adams.

As for your critique of the term neo-con, I don't care when it was first used. Neo means NEW, and today's new conservatives are NOT truly conservative.

I DO admire your willingness to hit me head on though. You're right; I have more respect for a staunch Christian than a wishy washy, tiptoeing "can't we all get a long" type.

We argue fiercely over everything else, why should religion be off limits??

And for anyone interested, I'm considering quitting the reformed church of the flying spaghetti monster and starting up a new, reformed sect of the church of the orbiting teapot.

To deny the teapot is to risk eternal hellfire.

Aint it grand you can start a church of the teapot and not get shot?

Look at you dallors, then say the pledge and don't leave out the part of ,"one nation under God," that has alot to do with why christians think we were build on the belief of God.

Excellent post JB,

There have been many opinions proffered here, some good some bad, so many points that I don’t care to point out any, for any reason, good or bad. I instead I will offer up this my opinion, and the information that I have found.

I believe that this Nation was NOT founded as a “Christian Nation”.

I think that if you look at the religious affiliations of the greatest names in our country’s beginnings (the greatest people of the American Revolution, the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and the signers of the Constitution) you will find that a majority of them where known Freemasons.
This list of names includes; Ethan Allen, Edmund Burke, John Claypoole, William Daws, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, John Paul Jones, Robert Livingston, Paul Revere, Colonel Benjamin Tupper, George Washington, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Robert Treat Payne, Richard Stockton, George Walton, William Whipple, Gunning Bedford, Jr., John Blair, David Brearly, Jacob Broom, Daniel Carrol, John Dickinson, Benjamin Franklin and Rufus King.

And most of the others there is evidence of membership, or had known strong affiliations with the Freemasons, this list includes;
John Adams, Samuel Adams, James Madison, Daniel Webster, Elbridge Berry, Lyman Hall, Thomas Nelson Jr., John Penn, George Read, Roger Sherman, Abraham Baldwin, William Blount, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, John Lansing, Jr., James Madison, George Mason, George Read, Robert Morris, Roger Sherman, George Wythe, William Richardson Davie, Jr., Jonathan Dayt